Give and Take

Episode 302: Is the Earth Growing a Brain?...with Topher McDougal

September 9th, 2025  |  53 mins 21 secs

On this episode of Give and Take, I talk with Topher McDougal, author of Gaia Wakes: Earth's Emergent Consciousness in an Age of Environmental Devastation. In the book, McDougal explores the provocative idea that the planet itself might be waking up—that Earth, long treated as a backdrop to human drama, is revealing itself as a conscious, responsive system in the midst of ecological crisis. We talk about what it means to think of the Earth as a living, even sentient, entity; how this vision challenges modern science and philosophy; and why embracing a more relational way of seeing our world could be key to surviving the environmental devastation we face. It’s a wide-ranging conversation about philosophy, ecology, and the deep stories we tell about our place in the cosmos.

Episode 301: Morbidly Curious: A Scientist Explains Why We Can't Look Away, with Coltan Scrivner

September 7th, 2025  |  47 mins 3 secs

My guest today is Coltan Scrivner, a behavioral scientist who has spent years studying the psychology of why we’re drawn to the dark, the eerie, and the unsettling. His brand-new book, Morbidly Curious, takes us deep into the strange territory of horror films, true crime, haunted houses, and all the things we’d rather pretend we don’t think about—but secretly can’t look away from. In our conversation, we explore why being curious about the morbid isn’t a flaw—it’s a fundamental part of being human. From evolutionary survival to modern entertainment, Coltan makes the case that leaning into our fascination with the macabre can actually teach us something about ourselves and the world around us. It’s a provocative, fascinating, and—yes—morbidly fun discussion.

Episode 300: My Guest Is Scott Jones...

September 2nd, 2025  |  1 hr 14 mins

christianity, community, connection, curb your enthusiasm, faith, human nature, interviews, jesus, karaoke, legacy, liminality, pastoral care, personal growth, personal journey, podcasting, recovery, sacred chats, social justice, spirituality, transformation

For our 300th episode of Give and Take, we’re doing something different. Instead of hosting, Scott Jones steps into the guest chair. His friend—and former guest of the show—Jane Rosenzweig takes the reins as interviewer. Together, they look back at the journey of Give and Take: the conversations that shaped it, the surprising turns along the way, and what Scott has learned from asking (and sometimes dodging) big questions over 300 episodes. They also talk about what it’s like to live out loud on a podcast, the art of listening, and where the show might go from here. It’s a candid, celebratory, and reflective conversation you won’t want to miss.

Episode 299: Confessions of an Amateur Saint, with Mandy Smith

August 26th, 2025  |  1 hr 9 mins

On this episode of Give and Take, Scott Jones sits down with author and pastor Mandy Smith to talk about her new book Confessions of an Amateur Saint. In it, Mandy offers an honest, grace-filled exploration of what it means to stumble faithfully toward holiness in an ordinary, imperfect life. Together, they unpack how spiritual growth often looks less like polished sainthood and more like vulnerability, struggle, and deep dependence on God. It’s a conversation about embracing weakness, finding freedom in honesty, and learning that sainthood is less about striving and more about surrender.

Episode 298: Is Theology Dying?...with Beatrice Marovich

August 12th, 2025  |  43 mins 23 secs

On this episode of Give and Take, Scott Jones talks with Beatrice Marovich about her provocative new essay, “Is Theology Dying?”, published in the Spring 2025 edition of The Other Journal. Marovich, author of Sister Death: Political Theologies for Living and Dying, reflects on the state of theology in our contemporary world—its dwindling institutional presence, its surprising resilience in unexpected places, and its evolving role in public discourse. Together, they explore whether theology’s apparent decline is a death knell, a transformation, or something stranger altogether.

Episode 297: Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History From The Puritans To Donald Trump, with Molly Worthen

July 24th, 2025  |  1 hr 23 mins

In this episode Scott is joined by historian and freelance journalist Molly Worthen. Her newest book is Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History From The Puritans To Donald Trump. They explore the themes of charisma, storytelling, and personal belief. They discuss the complexities of faith, the journey from observer to practitioner, and the role of charismatic leaders in shaping narratives. Worthen shares her personal experiences of conversion and the challenges of reconciling faith with reason, while also reflecting on the importance of community and the need for meaningful stories in a chaotic world. The discussion touches on historical figures, modern political charisma, and the ongoing search for understanding in both religious and secular contexts.

Episode 296: Swimming With The Sharks: Leading the Full Spectrum Church in a Red-and-Blue World, with Jack Haberer

July 17th, 2025  |  47 mins 37 secs

In this episode of Give and Take, Scott Jones sits down with pastor and author Jack Haberer to discuss his new book, Swimming With the Sharks: Leading the Full Spectrum Church in a Red-and-Blue World. As political polarization increasingly shapes—and often divides—American congregations, Jack brings hard-earned wisdom, theological depth, and pastoral sensitivity to the challenge of leading churches across ideological lines.

Drawing from decades of ministry in diverse settings, Jack shares real-world stories, practical insights, and a hopeful vision for what it means to shepherd a church that refuses to split down party lines. The conversation explores how pastors can stay rooted in the gospel while navigating cultural landmines, how churches can become spaces of faithful disagreement and spiritual growth, and why unity doesn’t have to mean uniformity.

Whether you’re a church leader, a congregant, or just someone curious about faith in a polarized age, this episode offers honest reflections and tangible guidance for engaging the tension with grace and courage.

Listen in and discover how to swim with the sharks—and lead with love.

Episode 295: Believing, with Lauren Jackson

July 3rd, 2025  |  51 mins 18 secs

On this episode of Give and Take, I talk with Lauren Jackson, writer of The Believing Project at The New York Times. Lauren explores the strange, beautiful, and sometimes baffling terrain of American religious life—what we believe, why we believe it, and how belief shapes the way we live. We talk about the origin of her project, the state of faith in an increasingly secular age, and why the stories we tell about belief might be more important than ever. From revival tents to deconstruction TikToks, Lauren brings a literary and deeply curious lens to the spiritual landscape. It’s a conversation about belief, doubt, devotion, and the stories that make us.

Episode 294: It's Only Drowning: A True Story of Learning to Surf and the Search for Common Ground, with David Litt

July 1st, 2025  |  59 mins 19 secs

My guest is David Litt. His newest book is It's Only Drowning: A True Story of Learning to Surf and the Search for Common Ground. Litt, a former Obama speechwriter moves to the Jersey Shore and learns to surf with the help of his brother-in-law: a tattooed, truck-driving Joe Rogan superfan. David, the Yale-educated writer with a fear of sharks, and Matt, the daredevil electrician with a shed full of surfboards, had never been close. But as America’s crises piled up and David spiraled into existential dread, he noticed that his brother-in-law was thriving. He began to suspect Matt’s favorite hobby had something to do with it. David started taking surf lessons. For months, he wiped out on waves the height of daffodils. Yet, after realizing that surfing could change him both in and out of the water, he set an audacious goal: riding a big wave in Hawaii. He searched for an expert he could trust to guide and protect him—and when he couldn’t find one, he asked Matt. Together, they set out on a journey that spanned coasts, and even continents, before taking them to Oahu’s famously dangerous North Shore. It’s Only Drowning is a laugh-out-loud love letter to surfing—and so much more. It’s an ode to embarking on adventures at any age. It’s a blueprint for becoming braver at a time when it takes courage just to read the news. Most of all, it’s the story of an unlikely friendship, one that crosses the fault lines of education, ideology, and culture tearing so many of us apart.

Episode 293: The Rise of the Not-Left, with William Deresiewicz

June 16th, 2025  |  1 hr 9 mins

In this episode of Give and Take, Scott talks with essayist and cultural critic William Deresiewicz about his provocative piece Post Election, published in Salmagundi magazine. They explore the growing disaffection with the contemporary left among intellectuals, artists, and other traditional allies, and the emergence of what Deresiewicz calls the “not-left.” It's a wide-ranging conversation about politics, culture, class, and what it means to think independently in a polarized age.

Episode 292: What To Do With Data, with Justin Evans

June 10th, 2025  |  43 mins 43 secs

In this episode of Give and Take, Scott talks with Justin Evans, author of The Little Book of Data. Justin has spent his career helping companies and creatives make sense of the numbers that shape our world. In his new book, he distills big ideas about data into bite-sized insights that are accessible, engaging, and surprisingly fun. We talk about how data can clarify rather than complicate, how it shapes decision-making in business and life, and why learning to read the "small print" of the digital age might just be a superpower. Whether you're a data skeptic or a spreadsheet junkie, this conversation will change how you think about the numbers that surround us.

Episode 291: Universality and Identity Politics, with Todd McGowan

May 29th, 2025  |  1 hr 12 mins

In this episode, I’m joined by Todd McGowan, philosopher, psychoanalytic theorist, and author of Universality and Identity Politics. We explore the central argument of his book—that true political transformation requires a return to universality, not a retreat into particular identities. Todd challenges prevailing assumptions about identity-based movements and offers a compelling alternative grounded in psychoanalytic theory and Hegelian philosophy. It’s a provocative and timely conversation about how we understand solidarity, difference, and what it means to build a more just world.

Episode 290: Is the War in Gaza Just?...with Thane Rosenbaum

May 21st, 2025  |  1 hr 12 mins

My guest is Thane Rosenbaum. His latest book, Beyond Proportionality: Israel’s Just War in Gaza, challenges prevailing narratives surrounding Israel's military actions in Gaza, arguing that accusations of disproportionate force overlook the complexities of modern urban warfare and the legal standards governing armed conflict.

Episode 289: Forget the Camel: The Madcap World of Animal Festivals and What They Say about Being Human, with Elizabeth Melampy

May 14th, 2025  |  47 mins 28 secs

In this episode of Give and Take, Scott talks with Elizabeth MeLampy, author of Forget the Camel: Animals, Symbols, and the Stories We Tell. From rattlesnake roundups in Texas to lobster boils on the Maine coast, and the curious case of a certain Pennsylvanian groundhog, MeLampy explores the surprising ways animals help us build communities, confront our fears, and make meaning in a messy world. Together, they discuss how rituals involving creatures both wild and domestic reveal our deepest cultural myths—about nature, class, history, and ourselves.

Episode 288: Godstruck: Seven Women's Unexpected Journeys to Religious Conversion, with Kelsey Osgood

April 29th, 2025  |  1 hr 6 mins

My guest is Kelsey Osgood. She is the author of Godstruck: Seven Women's Unexpected Journeys to Religious Conversion. Driven by a profound curiosity and anchored by intimate reporting, Godstruck is a provocative, insightful, and refreshingly nuanced exploration of both the joys and the challenges of faith that reveals what these seekers can teach all of us about modern life and our own searches for meaning.

Episode 287: Why Nazis spent World War II in a luxury West Virginia resort, with Benyamin Cohen

April 18th, 2025  |  45 mins 25 secs

In this episode of Give and Take, I talk with journalist and author Benyamin Cohen about one of the most bizarre and largely forgotten chapters of World War II history—when dozens of high-ranking Nazis spent the war years not in prison camps, but in luxury at a West Virginia resort. We’re talking about the Greenbrier Hotel, a grand, opulent resort nestled in the Allegheny Mountains, where captured German diplomats and their families were detained—if you can even call it that. They enjoyed gourmet meals, spa treatments, tennis matches, and more, all under the watchful but discreet eye of the U.S. government.