My guest is Jeff Mallinson. Jeff is Associate Professor of Theology and Philosophy at Concordia University, Irvine, a 1517 Thinking Fellow, and Co-Host of the Virtue in the Wasteland podcast. His newest book is Sexy: The Quest for Erotic Virtue in Perplexing Times. In it he asks what would happen if we reframed contemporary conversations about sexuality altogether? Instead of focusing on taboos, boundaries, and rules of sexual engagement, what if we let holy desire seduce people back to erotic virtue?